More Market Fun!

So sales and negotiation tactics are funny sometimes… Butter em up, and knock em down, right? All about becoming someone’s friend (well, pretending to anyhow), making them like you, THEN taking them for what their worth, in a manner of speaking. Over time, a true “relationship” might develop where it’s mutually beneficial not to try and scam your client (repeat business, referrals, etc.)… In the markets that primarily service one-time visiting tourists…THAT’S not a very likely/often occurring event – so we’re back to scamming… So I have two market stories to share… keeping the ABOVE in mind, at all times…

Wow you’re built…do you work out?

I’m interested in some tailored clothing… Back in the states a quality-material tailored shirt might run what…$100+? A tailored suit starts in the $500 range and goes WAY on up? Here, the cost is ALL in the material – andquality labor is still very reasonable… From my research I know that I should be able to get a tailored shirt as low as 60 RMB ($9 USD) for the cheap material (and it’s cheap), and upwards of twice that for a high-quality shirt… So I head off to the market one day determined to have a shirt made… one shirt… This is a trial – I’m intending to try and build that elusive relationship – by auditioning someone… If they pass, I’ll go order more, if they fail, I’m out less than $20 (less than most not-so-tailored shirts at Kohl’s!).

So I head into the fabric-portion of my favorite market… I head to the mid/back area (NEVER shop in “front” – always MORE expensive due to the prime location). I pick a shop and start looking at shirts. I’m greeted with the same “Want a suit? Several suits? Coat? How about a couple coats?” that I had be each shopkeeper in the hallway on my way back. This shop “won” because she was folding clothes when I walked by (instead of accosting me in the hallway!)… So I tell her I’m interested in having a shirt made… “Just one?” Yes, just the one… She goes on a spiel about many options, low quality vs high quality… Then she got the “high quality” fabric sample book out… Normally 250 RMB for a shirt for me (I’m “tall” so I need more fabric for my shirt = I’m a fat American instead of a tiny Chinese man so I need more fabric)… But today she hadn’t had a sale, so it’d be only 220. (As it is, I always seem to be the “first” sale of the day for every shop I’m in… amazing, isn’t it?)

I just laughed, did my normal “that’s too much” routine, shook my head, yadda yadda.. “But we don’t make any profit on shirts – we make profit on suits… shirts are just to help fill in gaps…” I was pretty sure I wouldn’t be buying here before I walked in anyhow (ALWAYS gauge a price by low-balling a shop once, so you can figure out WHAT to negotiate at the next one)… So, I thought I’d experiment… 220 for the high quality, what if I got 2 shirts, not one.. 410 for the pair (ok, down to 205)… still too much… ok, ok, I’m at my cost here, but 380 for the pair of them… I’m sorry, it’s just too much… so I start to walk away… “You’re too tough, final offer, 350 for both”…. I’m really very sorry but no thank you… I’m 4 stores away when she yells 300 for the pair…. Ok, now I know that 150 is doable – BUT high…

I move a bit towards the front and pick another shop – a smaller one, again with an owner that isn’t pushing at walk-bys… I come in and do the same nicety routine… I decide to cut to the “best fabric book price” off the bat… Starting price of 150, well, isn’t that something (it was the EXACT SAME fabric, mind you… same supply company and everything as the first store)… I had asked and responded in Mandarin, and the owner asks me how many years I’ve lived in Shanghai (I think this was a legitimate question)… I tripped up and said only 2 months (although true, this worked against me…)…OH, your Chinese is VERY good, only two months? I wish my English was that good… blah blah… Thanks, very kind, really, we reached the limit of my Chinese with “how much” and my comprehension of the price… BAH… 150 is too much, I know you have a better price… Well, we don’t make much on shirts, we make more … on suits, yes, I know… But you do make some. I’m interested in building a relationship… I won’t even hide it, I’m going to buy one shirt today, and if the price is reasonable, and the quality is good, I will come back for more shirts and maybe a suit… If you’re still reasonable maybe my wife will get a dress and my touristy friends will come with me to get stuff for themselves…

This got me 125 – the “cheap” stuff was 110 here (she wasn’t budging on that, which made me a LITTLE wary, though I think she knew I wasn’t really interested in the cheap stuff…). We got to: but one shirt of the quality fabrics for 110, 2 for 205, or one “cheap” fabric for 95… Since it was an audition, I ate the <1 USDsuppose…

1 week later the shirt was ready – so I went to go pick it up… The owner couldn’t have seem less-interested in me that day as I was clearly ONLY picking it up, and not buying others (at least yet)… She couldn’t remember my name, or what color shirt I had ordered – but it had been completed, and it did come out quite nice. As I walked out she did try one small attempt at “how about a suit or some other shirts today?” Nah, maybe next time… After 1 wash nothing fell apart, and the colors didn’t run… I’m happy with the shirt – and for $17 USD, the price was right…

You bargain too hard…

A shopkeeper will NEVER sell to you at a loss. They know what they paid for everything, and they won’t sell below that point… No reason to EVER feel guilty trying to negotiate, if they won’t give you your price, someone down the hall might… Usually…

Back home we had a CD player for night-time music for Vannah, to drown out background noise and help with the sleeping (and honestly, it works on me too!). We didn’t bring the CD player because it was only 110V… not 100-240V… We planned on buying one here… I kid you not, the CD boombox wen the way of the cassette player – it’s a collector’s item… You can still buy CD’s (for cars), but can’t find a player to save your life… You can spend a fortune on a surround sound system with DVD capability, but that seems a bit steep to put a little girl to sleep!

So, an alternative solution… A small digital music player… 2 small speakers, a SD card slot (micro SD is the one I ended up getting, but same concept), and some versions that allow direct connection from an ipod… Not audiophile of the month material, but more than sufficient for what we wanted… On taobao.com (chinese “multi purpose” online store… like our amazon…they have amazon.cn…but it’s limited compared to taobao), one of these cheap players is like 75 RMB, and a small card runs around 75 RMB… So I figure I should be able to get the pair for about 135, but no more than 150, at the market…

I head in to the back, as I generally do, looking for an electronics store… Electronics are tricky…they need to work, and these aren’t exactly brand name devices… Into the first shop I go to I start looking at the device I’m interested in… blah blah blah price? Blah blah blah normally 550, today for you since you’re my first sale, a steal at 450…. <sigh>… No really, what price? Ok, 440, but you’re ripping me off… That’s way too much, that’s ridiculous. It plays Ipod, SD, radio, any line in, 2 really good speakers (cranks up the volume to blow-out ear drum levels to demonstrate how “good” the speakers are), this is top quality.. I turn down the volume, “that’s too much.” He cranks up the volume, again…but listen, 440 is a great price…. I turn it down again, that’s too much, thanks anyway…you make me an offer?!?! I offered 100 for the player and the card… He laughed. “Be serious man”… Ok, 100 then? He shook his head…. Ok, thanks, bye… I walked out. 320, I can’t go lower. Wow, I wonder if any suckers actually pay 440 for that ? Awful…

Rule of thumb – last offer from the shop keeper as you walk away (320) times 40% is a good price point for what you should pay (128)… Sometimes its higher, but shouldn’t be more than maybe 60%... Made my 135 guess look about right…. Shop two was a strike-out – no cards and I wasn’t going to make two SEPARATE purchases…. Shop three was promising… Device, check. Micro SD card with adapter? Check…. Plug adapter to plug into wall (it’s a USB powered device), check… Ok, lets get to work. Blah blah blah 250…blah blah blah 115 for all three… blah blah blah be serious… Listen, I can get this online for 65, this online for 45… and that for 5… 115 is the right price….(I lied a little)…. This isn’t online, and you can’t verify that crap online… this you can try…. But you’re smart, so I’ll drop the price to 200, but I won’t make any money. You always make money… 115, really…. Be serious…. That’s ridiculous.

I shrug and start to walk…I can try 120 at the next shop… wait wait wait, don’t go, you act like you don’t have money, but you have money… You’re American right? American’s always have money… But you bargain hard… so how about 150… but you can’t tell anyone I went that low… Getting warmer… “It’s still a little too much… I’ll go to 130, but that’s it…” No, this I can’t do, 150 is already below my bottom. I shrugged again and walked out… I was almost 2 shops away when she came and grabbed my arm “ok ok, 130….you bargain WAY too hard.” I want to test it….It works, I KNOW it works. Ok, well I DON’T KNOW it works, so lets test it… with a card…. She abliged, reluctantly… and we tried the charger to be sure too… all was ok… I paid my 130, and off I was… I didn’t get an OUTSTANDING deal – I think I overpaid by 2-3 USD… BUT, she can probably use it more than I can….and I had fun in the process.